Between President Cyril Ramaphosa, Police Minister Bheki Cele and Public Works and Infrastructure Minister Sihle Zikalala, no one really knows how many people were arrested for extortion at construction sites.

According to Ramaphosa, it was 70; Zikalala previously said it was 200; and Cele said it was 149, but also somewhere "more than 200".

On Tuesday, Cele was in the National Council of Provinces to answer questions from MPs on arrests that were made in matters relating to extortion at construction sites, commonly referred to as the construction mafia.

Cele told MPs in the 2022/23 financial year, 105 extortion crimes were investigated.

"There were 149 arrests made. During 1 June 2022 and 1 March 2023, the economic infrastructure task team made 18 arrests and investigated six cases. SAPS, therefore, effected 167 arrests and investigated 111 cases during 2022/23.

"The 2023/24 financial year, from 1 April 2023 to September 2023, 30 extortion cases were investigated, and 64 arrests were made. During the period 1 April to June 2023, the Specialised Multi-Disciplinary Economic Infrastructure Task Teams made 54 arrests in respect of the existing cases, in respect of cases still ongoing," he said.

But, according to Ramaphosa, in the year ending June this year, more than 70 people were arrested related to extortion at construction sites, and more than 3 000 for illegal mining.

Ramaphosa was answering questions in the same House, where DA MP Tim Brauteseth asked for the specifics of the allocation of resources to the special units, which the president said, in his 2020 State of the Nation Address, would be "in every province to combat the scourge of the construction mafia".

Brauteseth again raised the matter.

"I have engaged the president on this issue. The president has reported 70 arrests in the construction mafia. Your Cabinet colleague Minister Zikalala has gone on record to say it's 200. Minister, it is time, you three sat down and come up with a figure. You are embarrassing yourself," he said.

In response, Cele said these were the figures from the side of the police.

"For me, the arrests would be more than 200. A cup of coffee would always be correct," he said.

Regarding Zikalala, the DA pressed the minister for evidence to support his assertion that more than 200 individuals had been arrested for disrupting construction sites.

In October, the DA released a statement, in which it accused Zikalala of lying, which prompted the department to demand a retraction.

They labelled the DA's statement as "untruthful and misleading propaganda" - and accused the party of attempting to defame the government.

The department maintained that its information concerning more than 200 arrests was accurate and supported by official documents.

The ANC's Shahidabibi Shaikh said: "We are encouraged that these thugs are being arrested. We hope these arrests will stop those from trying to join these sorts of things."

She asked Cele about the sentences for those who had been arrested.

Cele said there were about 15 people who had been taken to court and sentenced.

"Cumulatively, 43 years were given to those people. We are pleased that the judiciary is taking this seriously. One person has been given 15 years in one of these cases," he said.