Justice department director general Menzi Simelane was asked for R60-million to refurbish offices in Johannesburg purchased by the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) for prosecutors, he told the Ginwala hearing on Tuesday.

"I asked what building costs R60m to refurbish," he testified in response to questioning by advocate Ismail Semenya SC, who is assisting former Speaker in the National Assembly Frene Ginwala in her inquiry into the fitness to hold office of suspended national prosections head Vusi Pikoli.

He was told that the building, Innes Chambers, had been purchased by the NPA before Pikoli took office. However, it had remained empty for some time and been occupied by vandals who had "started causing a lot of damage".

"In order for it to be made habitable, an estimate was sought and it ran to R60 million, I refused. I said you can't spend R60m. I wanted more explanation why I should agree to that and wanted to know why the building was not occupied long after it was bought.

"The problem was information was not as forthcoming as, in my view, I thought it should be forthcoming."

Simelane contends that, as the accounting officer for the justice department, certain powers of his, which were delegated to the NPA, were not carried out properly and in a way which enabled him to sufficiently discharge his duties.

He told the hearing that this failure was, among other things, in the explanations he sought for decisions which were made.

"For me the making of explanations are what created difficulties. I did eventually agree to the R60 million," he said.

Semenya pointed out to him that legislation stipulated that the justice department, "in consultation with" the National Director of Public Prosecutions (NDPP), prepare records and estimates of the revenue and expenditure pertaining to the NPA's functions.

"I hear you say unless you agree," Semenya put it to Simelane, noting that he did not have right of veto, but that decisions be "by concurrence".

"It must be by concurrence, but at present at National Treasury it is the accounting officer which has to make the call about where the money must be located," Simelane replied.

"[The law] doesn't say the accounting officer must agree. The law says you and the NDPP must in consultation do that. There is nothing like the DG must make a call," Semenya put it to him.

However, Simelane said that in practice it happened. Asked which one of his powers delegated to others had not been carried out properly, Simelane told the hearing "quite a few of them were not done properly".